berklix.com logo

BSD-PIE icon

berklix.org logo

BSD icon
Gnu icon
Linux icon

Disclaimer

GEA Logo GEA Skiing Upper half of German flag + Lower half of UK Flags

http://berklix.org/gea/ski/

Index

More Dates

Additional Dates Always Welcome ! (please contact Julian to add more calendar entries, (& also a committee member if you want to rush in a last minute addition for an imminent new month's printed programme). Mostly dates are arranged to try to conform with "Ski Season's Planning Criteria" below.

Top Of Page

Notes On Columns

  • Type:
    • Down=Down hill,
    • Tour=Ski Tour,
    • Lang=Langlauf=Cross Country.
    • All=All types of skier welcome.
    • Where more than one type, main emphasis is listed first.
  • Skill:
    • Beg=Beginners (ie including absolute beginners),
    • Exp=Experienced.
    • Any=Any level of experience or lack thereof.
  • Organiser: Name of organiser. Click on it for more info.
  • Destination: Ski Organisers please tell me web references(URL) for your Destination Resort, for Ski Map info etc, & I'll make it click-able from the table.
  • Free/ Commercial club trips are organised free (but you still have to pay various lifts & accommodation & petrol etc), but we also list some Semi Commercial Trips: Most of Ken's trips are marked "Semi Commercial". on those the organiser's prime aim is to teach people skiing, for which he offers a commercial package, charges money, & bundles in equipment provision, tuition, accommodation & (I think) lift pass) A few experienced club skiers sometimes join those groups without taking the package.
  • Comment: Odd extra info.

Notes On Rows

  • A row of dashes '-' (or empty boxes) is a date available for an Ski Organiser (unless below a preceeding multi day trip).
  • Non club Trips such as Ken's commercial trips, Pickwick's & Peter's Private trip maybe shown in {{brackets}}.

Top Of Page

People

Here is a picture gallery of other club people, for recognition purposes for ski trips etc, note Not All are skiers, just some, some do other club things instead/as well.

Top Of Page

Other Group's Dates

We also organise short notice trips via our gea-ski@ mail list. Where you may also latch on to private trips too.

Our Ski Organisers also have a 2nd mail list just for the Ski Organisers, not for normal skiers who don't organise.

Subscribe Ski Email List(s) here

You might want to also look at Munich Ski Club Web They have an entry fee of 10 Euro, & Annual Membership of 30 Euro (when last I looked) (by contrast: We are Free ! Email

Maybe Munich branch of the Deutsch Alpen- verein might also organise trips. (Use a search engine. & mail me a URL).

Resorts

( Web refs to some random resorts. Not where GEA go, just random web refs so far. )

Top Of Page

Other Trips

We already list Fackel Wanderung, as well as all forms of skiing, but we would be delighted if someone wanted to organise eg: snow shoe walking, sledging, rodel, ice skating on canal, lake or frozen tennis court by a ski lift

Top Of Page

How To Organise A club Ski Trip

It was suggested I prepare outline How-To notes to encourage new Ski Organisers, & noted that organising the accommodation is perhaps the most interesting area of advice for an inexperienced/ new ski organiser. Paul has also asked me. Emails/tips from other experienced Ski Organisers to fill out this section are welcome, if not received, I may eventually get round to it myself. Meantime, if you read the briefing notes for attenders of my annual down hill for Beginners & Experienced - Mayrhofen trip, you'll have a good idea of what to do & what to avoid.

Top Of Page

Booking Form

We have a web based ski booking form available for some trips. Most other trips are still booked direct with Ski Organiser. (When time is found by Julian he will do more work automating the back end behind the booking form, for detail processing, & then offer an extended version to any others Ski Organisers who may want it.)

Top Of Page

Ski Trip Conventions EG Petrol etc

There's lots of conventions us regular club skiers are used to, for most just ask the regular club skiers, or the Ski Organiser, Here's a couple of examples:
  • We very rarely go to hotels that accept credit cards - bring Cash ! - All the other passengers in the car haven't got any interest in going to a more expensive hotel or restaurant, & all paying a lot more, just so's you can use your credit card, (even if we could find somewhere to take a card) so Bring Enough Cash.
  • Petrol money: we normally aim to fill standard cars with 4 people, & leave the 3 passengers to pay all petrol, leaving driver to incur depreciation (think salt water corrosion & heavy engine wear on mountains etc), that way we help encourage sufficient drivers to suffer the corrosive salted & gritted winter roads, & increased risk of collision etc. If the driver has not bought rack & chains, passengers sometimes deduct the price of a beer from petrol money, & buy a beer over the weekend for the driver who was kind enough to synchronise his vehicle & squeeze their skis onto his rack etc, thus encouraging more drivers to invest in rack & chains.
  • We pretty much always stop for a drink after skiing & don't rush off. The drivers don't booze it up though.
  • Passengers should synchronise with Drivers travel plans, be back on time from skiing, & not order meals when rest are planning to leave.
  • Drivers co-ordinate plans with their fellow drivers.
  • Passengers are normally head counted after skiing by their own driver. Drivers make mutual check arrangements among each other. Passengers of a missing /late driver should report the missing skier to other drivers.
  • We don't come back early to unlock vehicles for non skiers.
  • A meal on the way back to Munich is optional, subject to driver - depends if stomach demanding food to digest, plus aching muscles demanding blood to rebuild, may deprive brain of blood supply to concentrate on driving.
  • We probably have other conventions too, which are easier remembered in the snow fields than typing here in Munich

Top Of Page

Ski Season's Planning Criteria

  • The annual club ski planning meal enables us to optimise/maximise the amount of ski trips available during the ski season. It was started after we had a dry January one year: the snow was good, but we fumbled the planning, & had no down hill weekend for 3 weeks.
  • We try to maximise the number of full weekends available but get lower turnout if we have adjacent full weekends, so we try to alternate full weekends & day trips on successive weekends.
  • We get fewer weekends if we first ad hoc book the easy to organise single day trips on any random weekend Ski Organisers bid for; so instead it's better to try to schedule the 2 day full weekends trips first, on alternate weekends, & then add the one day trips in between.
  • We try when possible to avoid a full weekend on club Fasching's party weekend; we often do a one day trip then, Sunday usually.
  • The timetable needs to account for Christmas & Easter. EG 1 day trips on weekends when accommodation is hard to find, 2 days (or more) when easy.
  • We sometime run 2 trips the same day, EG Langlauf & down hill, but a few Ski Organisers do more than one form of skiing, & don't want to miss out, so sometime we do EG langlauf on Saturday & down hill on Sunday (or vice versa), rather than 2 1 day & none the other day same weekend.
  • Langlauf dates - Sorry not here - We're not biased against Langlauf, we've integrate plans with Langlauf too before, but currently it's not viable. If you'r looking for a langlauf trip to join, you might try another GEA web site, Or eg Munich International Ski Club etc, If you'r willing to organise a langlauf day trip, you'r welcome to join the ski Ski Organisers, both on the Ski Organisers mail list Click to subscribe Ski Organisers List &/or at the annual ski planning meeting.
    Why we don't currently include dates for langlauf:
    Unfortunately Planning is disrupted: the down hillers have co-ordinated down hill & tour dates etc, co-ordinated by Julian for more years than we can remember then we added langlauf dates planning too to help synchronise trips, (to avoid clashes where possible, for people who liked to do both, & make sure something was always on each weekend, & not 2 things one weekend, & nothing the next). Then Hilary (alias Sunny) J. joined the GEA & tried & failed to wrest control of ski planning (as well as other things). After this, Julian foolishly trusted Hilary (alias Sunny) J. one last time: Hilary (alias Sunny) J. was entrusted with one of the 3 sub planning sheets (we had Tour, down hill & Langlauf sheets), & Hilary (alias Sunny) J. was appointed to collect langlauf data at the planning meal. Then all 3 sheets were to be merged to Julian's master & all 3 subsets then updated from the combined master sheet, all at the meeting. Thus 4 of us would have had complete copies when we left. Instead Hilary (alias Sunny) J. copied our Tour & down hill details to her sheet (perhaps for publication to her other domain's GEA web & censored mail list), but did not give us the langlauf details, disappearing with Julian's printed langlauf planning sheet she'd been trusted with. Ken told the down hill & tour Ski Organisers in 2004 that Hilary (alias Sunny) J. (as mail list censor of another GEA web domain) had refused to pass his ski details to her list until he removed a link from his Short Ski Beginners Group to this berklix.org/gea/ski page. We remain happy to co-ordinate with Langlaufers, to benefit multi-discipline skiers, but it may not happen until Hilary (alias Sunny) J. & GEA part company.
  • We usually (but not always) manage to avoid EG a 1 day down hill in one resort on the same weekend a 2 day down hill trip in a different resort.
  • There's usually a private trip to France, that involves a number of club regulars, so it's as well to be aware of private trip dates that may affect numbers on public trips.
  • One of our regulars ha a mini bus, takes maybe 6 or 7 roughly. Drink with the winterised beer gardeners, & you may discover who & possibly get offered a trip in the van or a car :-)
  • We also arrange small groups not on the official programme, these are often arranged at short notice among the winterised beer gardeners, the stammtisch goers occasionally, & the gea-ski@ berklix.org list ( Click to subscribe Skiers List ).
  • This Hanenkammdate in 2006 clashed with Mayrhofen trip so might be Traffic jams?.

Top Of Page

Planning Method Only of possible interest to Ski Organisers

  • The schedule used to be organised with identical papers with dates in front of each Ski Organiser at the ski planning meal, for bids for dates & then collated, discussed & dates shuffled to optimise use of weekends. As that was best typed, & as we usually know a few requests in advance, it's helpful to list those too, & as the info will be published on web email & printed programme later anyway, it's convenient to list early tentative plans on the web too. Some years Julian just provides a giant sheet, & all trips are marked up, that system works well with smaller numbers, but problems of wet table & dark restaurants. Torch useful ! In 2004 Julian also had a laptop loaded & ready with the planning table, (which would have made inserting extra mid week trips in particular, rather easier, but then paper was used as more easily review-able by all the group (passing a laptop around among glasses of beer, & plates of food is problematic, compared with paper.
  • Details can be registered on this list by emailing or phoning Julian.
  • These dates are NOT fixed, they're just some initial wishes of some individual Ski Organisers & will likely be changed somewhat when Ski Organisers together at & after the annual Ski Organisers planning meal, when we optimise the season's schedule.
  • First Come First Served ? - No It's Not That Simple !
    • It is not necessarily first come first served for this timetable, neither by email bids nor on the planning night.
    • it seems best to optimise the ski timetable to maximise ski enjoyment & safety etc, for the club skiers, not simply to satisfy whichever Ski Organiser managed to bid first by email, or managed to arrive on time for the ski meal.
    • Full weekend ski trips in prime snow time (Jan to mid/late Feb) are considered valuable, not to be messed up by less than experienced Ski Organisers, so it's appreciated if newer Ski Organisers to the club first do one day trips, & smaller 2 day trips out of prime time, until they've shown club skiers they have the proven organisational ability to extend to reliably & successfully organise large groups in prime snow time. (There's a lot to get right, or wrong, in a full weekend, & only a few optimal dates in a short season, so we can't afford to waste any).
    • "First come" might (or might not) be OK for langlauf, which generally is low death/serious injury risk compared to down hill or ski tour.
    • When you get to be standing on a steep mountain, perhaps teaching down hill beginners how to crash properly & avoid broken arm/legs etc, or teaching tourer-s avalanche danger assessment etc, then competence is more important than who made first claim.
    • There's other criteria, equally doubtless skiers will think of & understand them better than non skiers, & be more affected by the decisions than non skiers, so such decisions are best left to skiers !
  • It's optimal if we first try to work out from other constraints, which weekends are best for 1 or 2 day trips, then Ski Organisers choose dates available ?
  • Like to do a trip yourself? - Pick a free date above & get advice from other Ski Organisers.
  • Date Arbitration/decision etc is by the body of Ski Organisers.

  • Top Of Page

Skiers & Ski Organisers Mailing Lists

Top Of Page

Non Skier's Unsolicited Opinions

Each time there's a club skiing problem, one receives a few un-solicited & usually un-informed comments from club people who seem to all too often make the ignorant assumption (subconscious or conscious) that organising a club ski trip should be based on similar principles to those used to organise other club events most of which are of a far more trivial nature, EG trip to a city restaurant. Non skiers often don't bother asking nearly enough questions before issuing their frequently un-informed opinions, & it gets tedious trying to politely explain the many things they hadn't realised or bothered to ask. It's of course quite possible for non skiers, & skiers of limited experience to have useful ideas, & for those we're grateful, but please ask _lots_ of questions before you allow an idea to grow to an opinion formed in ignorance, that could likely cause annoyance if thrust unasked on Ski Organisers.
  • For True Experience:-
    • Learn to ski (any type of ski) ! - Your perceptions may change.
    • If you've tried Langlauf & weren't scared ...
    • Try down hill, its faster & more dangerous,
    • Try Ski Tour. - sometime slower than down hill, can be more dangerous though.
    • Organise some one day club (club or other) Ski Trips, (if you haven't already)
    • Organise beginners trips,
    • Organise complete club ski weekends
    • Keep doing it for 10 to 20 years for the club. Remember Ski Organisers mistakes (yours & others), logistical contingencies & accidents & problems your skiers have been caught out by in the mountains, & learn from them, & try to plan to avoid them etc.
    • Encourage other club Skiers to both help out on big trips & organise trips of their own too
    • ... And now the hard bit ... ;-)
    • Sigh when non skiers dump unsolicited opinions on you about ski matters !
  • A few of us are experienced club Ski Organisers who have done most or all the above list.
  • Non skiers & perhaps those who haven't done down hill, tour, or full weekend skiing might like to consider the following list of a few of the many problems that Ski Organisers have dealt with, & that they try to plan around &/or to avoid or deal with where possible, (events that have helped make us `experienced') :
    • Road closure from avalanche danger, skiers stranded in ski boots in bar now closing, no hotels left, no money & passports for hotels either, cars blocked by locked barrier from driving through avalanche endangered road to reach rooms containing normal shoes, clothes, passports, money & beds for the night.
    • Ski drivers & passengers separated, lost from each other, now on different mountains/valley stations, after having been separated by lack of visibility, piste closed by avalanche danger, different speed/ability etc. Lost skiers & missing drivers, cant always stick notes to wind screens 'cos the snow ice wind sleet rain & dark defeat you, & it's slow walking in ski boots, & the last bus has gone, & taxis are expensive, or no racks, or just not available
    • Injury
    • Mugging (Robbery) of party member.
    • Broken rib, broken arm reported to you at breakfast, before 1st coffee, with some fool threatening to beat you up, because you somehow didn't know, though you were skiing a different mountain with a different group yesterday, & this is the first you've heard, no one having reported it yesterday.
    • Lack of cars, or passengers for booked cars, lack of snow chains for glaciers, winter tyres, ski racks, inadequate anti-freeze, cars doors locked solid, car break downs,
    • Rush to leave car park before dead end glacier tunnel is locked for the night.
    • The odd blizzard perhaps with a group of you on a snow slope of 45 degrees, a few miles from human habitation, (skiers car groups are never sorted by ski ability, so ski groups comprise assorted passengers & drivers belonging to car groups of skiers elsewhere on same or loosely adjacent mountains.
    • Skiers stuck in dead end valleys, night closing in, hours of hard work ahead: either walking up mountain back to piste at top of mountain (to reach piste to valley) or the same but hours skiing in increasing dark through raw forest.
    • Lack of hotel rooms
    • Can't book pensions often for 1 night.
    • Can't find where booked pensions are.
    • Cant drive to hotel cos too steep narrow & icy !
    • Hotel rooms stolen by club members not booked on the trip.
    • Stuck without chains, can't get up
    • Driver stuck up top without chains, he & passengers can't get down icy road
    • Broken/stolen skis boots sticks
    • People who forget equipment money & passports to rent equipment,
    • People who tell drivers they `must' be driven back up mountain fast to return gear before shop closes, or `must' return early to Munich (no chance!)
    • Driver turned back at the border, 'cos of no passport, & passenger left with no driver.
    • Car impounded by border police, sudden extra passenger & skis to squeeze into whichever cars if any remain behind the impounded one.
    • Passengers claiming Sunday morning to have no money to pay hotel or driver's petrol money.
    Non ski organisers should realise club Ski Events, particularly down hill/tour & full weekend trips are potentially much more dangerous & complex & need much more forward planning than most other simple club events, & are immensely more complex, than the truly trivial booking of a meal in a Munich Restaurant, that many experience as a club `Event' & unconsciously draw parallels with when forming opinions on how club events should be done, & who has supposed rights to do whatever, etc.
Conclusion: non skiers would be wiser to ask a lot more questions before venturing un-informed unsolicited opinions on ski issues to experienced ski Organisers !

No Committee Non Skier Interference

The committee are usually & largely non skiers, & many recognise their lack of competence & steer clear of skiing issues. Even those that are skiers are virtually never experienced weekend down hill ski trip Organisers. Some committee members never the less periodically try to interfere, usually at the instigation of some rogue, & committee members then easily exhibit ignorance & incompetence, causing more trouble & time wasting.
  • Ski Organisers respect other experienced Ski Organisers, & can debate issues among equals.
  • Committee members are not usually qualified to voice an opinion.
  • Skiing matters get discussed & decided by Ski Organisers & in conjunction with experienced club skiers.
  • Committee members are individually welcome on trips just as any other skier.
  • Committee attempts to assert authority over ski affairs is unacceptable & disruptive.
  • Committee members are often too old, lack ski competence, down hill weekend ski trip experience in particular & have little clue of issues.
  • Organising weekend trips away is far more complex than many trivial events normal committee members often organise.
  • Educating some committee members not to interfere in ski issues is a periodic waste of Ski Organisers' time.
  • Ski Organisers time is usually more valuable than committee members time, there normally being more of a shortage of competent Ski Organisers prepared & competent to arrange trips, & no particular shortage of inexperienced non skiers willing to be elected as a committee member.
  • The non-berklix mail list is censored, & periodically obstructed, not reliable to promote down hill ski trips.
  • A non-berklix web site does not promote some trips.
  • Some committee's printed programmes have not listed some ski trips.
  • The committee's finances & equipment are not used to fund or float ski trips.
  • The committee contribute nothing necessary to organising ski trips.
  • Berklix.org servers hosts the ski web & mail. Berklix.org receives no help from committee members, & is not committee assisted or controlled.
  • One committee member invoked the name of the committee to placate a ski trip disrupter who had degraded a ski trip. The further degraded environment produced by both the disrupter & then committee member did nothing to help retain & recruit more Ski Organisers.

Top Of Page

Disclaimer

  • Contact Ski Organisers well in advance for weekend trips (deposits often required).
  • All routes & destinations subject to snow conditions and car seats available, snow & road conditions, & Ski Organisers decisions.
  • Events can be relocated, postponed or cancelled if necessary without notice, for instance due to snow or traffic conditions, lack of enough participants or transport, or indisposition of Ski Organisers.
  • Check your e-mail, pay attention to announcements at the Friday. Stammtisch, and always confirm booking with the Ski Organiser beforehand.
  • Don't just turn up (unless the Ski Organiser specifically advertises that is acceptable), as there may well be no space for you.
  • If you must cancel, formally cancel direct with the Ski Organiser so he/she knows. No-shows who muck up our car & or hotel sharing plans are usually not welcome on subsequent trips, Ski Organisers usually mention names of no shows to fellow Ski Organisers.
  • Weekend trips often require advance booking and deposits, which we drink to celebrate you not coming, if you fail to show up.
  • club events are organised by volunteers. Participation is entirely at your own risk and on your own responsibility, we (club, organisers, fellow participants et c) disclaim All responsibility !

Top Of Page

Another Group: Richard Gipps' Ski Tourers group

http://www.munichskitourers.de/index.html - English speaking web & email

Another Group: Ken Lawler's Short Ski Beginners Group

Ken's group isn't part of the GEA, but a Verein. There's numerous GEA people there & vice versa. Many good recommendations too, & he does an open trip, no tuition or charges etc for GEA too. Ken's group provides equipment, beginners training, accommodation & (I think) lift tickets, for a fee.

Top Of Page

Another Group: Paraski

Paraski, a Yahoo group run by HanZi Field, who took Ken's beginner course in '02. HanZi goes skiing nearly every weekend and is always looking for passengers and drivers to go along. Email List . Hanzi also does barbecues in summer, & overlaps with club circles.

Top Of Page

Another Club: Munich International Ski Club (MISC) e.V.

One day trips, weekend, long weekend and week long trips. Email subscription request to Donna Peavey Day trip cost per person '04: Members - Eur. 35, Non-members - Eur. 45, Long trips: February 20 - 24 Kranjska Gora, Slovenia, Italy at Easter. 3 - 10 April. Madesima resort.

Top Of Page

Other Commercial Bus & Train Trips etc

Railway, bus companies and sport shops offer day trips with transport maybe breakfast and lift pass built in. They leave very early in the morning (typically German !) and leave the resort too early as well, even more typically German ! I've never tried them, as I aim to arrive at top of mountain with last lift, maybe admire the view or have a drink, wait for the crowd to clear off, then ski down & have another drink & a cake in a cafe/bar. Forget that relaxed idea if you'r on a commercial German bus.

  • Auto Bus Ober Bayern

    Can book with with Sport Scheck tel 54907560 or Sport Scheck Travel Agency 38014151 {Mail from Ken} Email Day trips to Hoch-Zillertal every Wed, Fri, Sat Sun (till 6th of april) . 6:50 from Haupt-bahnhof (in front of Hertie). Wed/Fri for 34 Euro, Sat/Sun for 41 Euro (prices inclusive return bus trip, ski pass & breakfast) {Mail from Ken}

  • Sport Scheck

    offers different destinations every Sat/Sun between 42 and 49 Euro. There's also weekend trips from Eur. 179 until WE 3rd April. {Mail from Ken}

  • Sport Schuster

    (info 23707299) also offers Tages- fahrten - destinations are announced on the Wed. before, so drop in at Sport Schuster (Marienplatz) and pick up a leaflet and to book. Go to their travel agency on the first floor and ask for the Tages-fahrten - these trips don't make it onto the web site: Prices around 40 Eur. (depending where you go) inclusive return bus trip & ski pass. Bus leaves 07.30 from 'Rinder-markt', behind Sport Schuster, Marienplatz. Book a place, don't just turn up! {Mail from Ken}

  • Bayerische Oberland-bahn (BOB, a train)

    offers the Kombi-Ticket: Transport and ski pass Schliersee-Spitzingsee 33 Euros BayerischZell-Sudelfeld 32 Euros Lengries-Brauneck 31 Euros Tickets In the main hall at the Hauptbahnhof (DB-desk 47 or 49) info: 08024 997171 Email {Mail from Ken}

  • Europa.Reisen.München

    Werfenburg Salzburgerland: Tues/Wed/Thurs/Fri 24 Euro, Sat 28 Euro {Info from leaflet from jhs}
    Sat/Sun for 42 Euros Brixental. prices include return bus trip, ski pass and breakfast. meeting at 07.00 - Post Office, Harras (U6 / S7) for Brixental. {Mail from Ken}

    They also offer Wipp- tal or Werfenweng skiing on Tues/Wed/Thurs/Fri meeting at Isar- Tor- Platz, 07.00h for 24 Eur. and Sat/Sun for 28 Eur. have a look at Tel 297766 {Mail from Ken}

  • abenteuer-agentur.de

    A former colleague of Mahmut's founded a company for day-trips, he did Toboggan trips January 2006.

Latest Stop Press Items (If Any)

Top Of Page

Random Ski Links

Top Of Page

Copyright

  • Format & Content in whole & in parts, Copyright Julian Stacey, Munich 2001.
  • Permission granted to make links to this & other pages.
  • Permission granted to copy only complete & unchanged.
  • Permission granted to the club monthly programme compiler to include the month's content & format as needed for the club monthly programme, distributed on paper & by email.
  • All others including club web page authors, committee members collectively or singularly, normal members & general public, are forbidden to copy & change format, content etc, to create a new similar rival semi-duplicate web page, such would just be damn nuisance to the skiers who need a single reference source for information. (This to avoid later changes having to be synchronised by a spurious extra human web editor, Ski Organisers being burdened with extra contacts, un-necessary confusion, & waste of time. This clause consequent to past bad experience of piracy eg with mail list etc.)

Top Of Page

Author's Home ski Page

Berklix.Net Computer Associates Domains Apache: Web Server FreeBSD: Operating System